krkakrka007

Hey guys! I believe if you're looking for advice, this forum is the right place, correct?

I'd like to ask your opinion about an idea. Imagine you could open a web page (or a program on a pc for that matter) and connect to a rc car, which is somewhere far far away, and race someone from another part of the world on a custom track and in real time? Imagine you could also choose different tracks, different regions, different cars even, modify them for this specific track from a list of parts? My question is - would you?

tl;dr
Online real life real time rc car races, would you be intereted?

silvalis

iTrader: (29)

sounds laggy.

krkakrka007

That is untested, true, and of course lag can kill this idea, but i'm asking whether you would like to try something like that out?

silvalis

iTrader: (29)

While it's a good idea, the issue is you can't guarantee latency.

From a vague recollection of RC radio PWM, an rc servo/esc expects to see a PWM every 20ms. So lets say that radio framerate is 5ms (easy number), we want 10ms of radio latency + internet latency (2way) of 10ms = everything is good.

The question is, what happens when your internet latency is, say, worst case, 510ms? (number chosen to make it easy)

What does the servo/esc do for this 500ms between frames from the radio?

Now I'd expect your program to jam everything back into neutral, so you don't, eg, continue accelerating into that wall or turning into traffic. But I (hope) you see my point. Given the current speeds of RC, even a 100ms spike could mean you just drove flat out into a wall.

(Don't forget to factor in return latency. Given that you would probably use a camera, that has latency too)

I hope you can find a way around this, because the idea is really cool.

krkakrka007

Thanks for the advice and glad you like it
If enough people show interest, testing will be the next step. Sounds like you know what youre talking about and latency could be a reaaaal problem, but lets hope well find a way around

kaan

isnt that called VRC ???

krkakrka007

vrc are virtual, im talking about controlling real cars through internet.

egobrkr

iTrader: (29)

I would not be willing to do this type of racing. The best part of racing to me is hanging out with the people and racing second. I truly belive that the world now depends too much on the "virtual world". People are starting to have a hard time interacting with people face to face. Its a cool idea but I choose the be in the race not part of it.

krkakrka007

@egokrbr
Thanks, i'm glad to get all sorts of answers

lbenton

iTrader: (48)

I see this kind of remote driving being more appealing for trail crawling. But not from a variety of remote locations. Get all the drivers on the same local network (reduce that latency and lag) and they simply have a POV trail crawl with marshals to follow and assist as needed.

The same thing can be done for racing, but in a POV theater I think you would want new scenery as you go, not just laps. And lets face it, an overpowered SC driven POV will get itself into some real trouble... But I guess trouble can be fun too.

But yes, in any case latency over a wide area network will be a problem, ask any of the hard core gamers that know the exact frame rate they get online... so maybe do it as a LAN party?

silvalis

iTrader: (29)

Which sort of defeats the purpose of the whole thing




Actually, I guess you're aiming for the FPV aspect. It's pretty hard to drive offroad (and onroad) from FPV. Way too bumpy.

lbenton

iTrader: (48)

Maybe, but WAN is not going to be fair at all, it will have different people with different amounts of lag. The advantage will be bandwidth more than skill in some cases.

As far as the FPV and being bumpy, that is why I suggested trail crawl type events for this, slows the pace down, allows for some scenery, still will take skill to do a run.

I can see an overpowered SC or some 1:8 rig being more like a scud missile, big, heavy, fast, dangerous, and hard to aim in the right direction.

locked

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, but I just can't see how this could possibly work well. Aside from the latency issues, who owns the vehicles and would repair and charge them? Who will marshal?

If in FPV, you would need a good steady cam style mount that also has real time pan/tilt and even then the only way it would be driveable is if the vehicles were slowed way down. If its the view from the driver's stand, you still need real time pan/tilt.

You would have to charge people a lot more than it costs to race normally.

I just don't see how you could possibly make this into a viable business model even if it worked.

RC10Nick

iTrader: (9)

Exactly. There's a whole slew of practical problem keeping this idea from being feasible.

You want a real track? That require space. More tracks? More space. Space equals overhead. You need to pay for that space. You need to pay to maintain that space. You need to pay to insure that space. You need to buy the materials to make the tracks. You need to pay to maintain the tracks.

Same with cars. Who maintains the cars? What happens if faulty maintenance results in a user's DNF?

Even if this concept was technically feasible, the costs would be monstrous. How much would an end user have to pay? You've got to charge them to cover all those costs PLUS make a profit.

I think I'd rather just pay for my equipment only, swallow the track fee, and enjoy hanging out with my buds.

chevmaro

iTrader: (25)

The other guy on the other side of the world wouldnt have the same track layout, laptimes etc. I don't see it working

If you could make an XBOX 360 controller work in place of my Airtronics radio, now that would be cool.