The Official 4300 Brushless/LiPo/Foam Touring Thread
12-06-2006, 02:01 PM
#211
Heres my answer. With the sintered rotor The heat range is about 3 or 4 teeth. The higher ratio is the problem in performance and not the temp.Due only to the size of the track. Am I close or am I not making any sense. This is a delima syndrome and I are trying to figure out. In other words take the inefficiant ratio to a bigger track and now the efficancy is back. In other words over gearing is'nt only determained by the temp. And the sintered rotor seems to be the clue? In an earlier post you mention the load power. And how it actually cools as well as the gap.? We just want to know where the fade is. I believe over gearing.Thanks to Mr. Black we have ruled out the voltage. That sintered rotor is the bomb, and It is fast regardless. Just trying to catch a ghost.
Last edited by UN4RACING; 12-06-2006 at 04:44 PM.
12-06-2006, 04:41 PM
#212
It is a balancing act for sure.
I think the smaller the track is, the lower your max temp will end up being. I think youre right though, you can get to a point that it doesn't get faster, just "bogs" so to speak.
I've been learning that overall, it seems the 13.5 max range is around 120-150 depending on conditions.
Figuring out what size track needs what gear is the next step, but we've learned already, we're not going to give out a fixed gearing recomendation, just fine tune our temp recomendations.
With the sintered rotor you're actually experiencing the effects of the stator/coils getting hot, and the lack of power from the motor to pull the gear over the course of the run. It's masking the problem slightly I suppose.
YOu can always email us directly if you get antzy..... Sometimes I can't get to the internet before I leave. But emails are done first and foremost around here.
I think the smaller the track is, the lower your max temp will end up being. I think youre right though, you can get to a point that it doesn't get faster, just "bogs" so to speak.
I've been learning that overall, it seems the 13.5 max range is around 120-150 depending on conditions.
Figuring out what size track needs what gear is the next step, but we've learned already, we're not going to give out a fixed gearing recomendation, just fine tune our temp recomendations.
With the sintered rotor you're actually experiencing the effects of the stator/coils getting hot, and the lack of power from the motor to pull the gear over the course of the run. It's masking the problem slightly I suppose.
YOu can always email us directly if you get antzy..... Sometimes I can't get to the internet before I leave. But emails are done first and foremost around here.
12-06-2006, 04:51 PM
#213
I swear if it where a snake. That is the answer thank you. that sintered rotor is a miracle in a can. Thanks, these questions we save for everyone it's good reading. I'll say you are a pretty good ghost buster if you caught my edit to my answer. Thanks you have come threw again.
I was editing to make it more understandable and you were posting. Now thats service. Your good.
...................X....................
I was editing to make it more understandable and you were posting. Now thats service. Your good.
...................X....................
Last edited by UN4RACING; 12-06-2006 at 05:02 PM.
12-06-2006, 08:48 PM
#214
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Is noone out there. I'm going to hit auto submit And get this baby back up front if I have to. I need something to read Guy's
Just so everyone know's Syndrome's GQ's are fixing to get a solid 3 weeks and at race pace. I stuck With the parma's, and there was absolutly no variance in performance. He was fast.My parma's are getting 2 TO 2.5 weeks.
Money's on the GQ's. Later.
I'm going to go read myself somemore.
Just so everyone know's Syndrome's GQ's are fixing to get a solid 3 weeks and at race pace. I stuck With the parma's, and there was absolutly no variance in performance. He was fast.My parma's are getting 2 TO 2.5 weeks.
Money's on the GQ's. Later.
I'm going to go read myself somemore.
Has anyone run plaid purples recently to get a bit more wear from foams? I know they'd be slower but if everyone in a particular class aggreed to run only plaid purples it might make for a little savings on your tire bill if they don't wear as aggressively as pink double pink. I am assuming one could compensate for some of the reduction in grip with set up.
12-06-2006, 08:53 PM
#215
Originally Posted by andrewdoherty
Has anyone run plaid purples recently to get a bit more wear from foams? I know they'd be slower but if everyone in a particular class aggreed to run only plaid purples it might make for a little savings on your tire bill if they don't wear as aggressively as pink double pink. I am assuming one could compensate for some of the reduction in grip with set up.
12-06-2006, 09:05 PM
#216
Suspended
Plaids and purples work fairly well... I used them early last winter when I was too poor to afford the soft stuff...
12-06-2006, 09:07 PM
#217
I'm planning on riding out the rubber tires train here at my track. But please post if you get to try it. Were (Or maybe its just me) mostly looking at ways to cut our tire bill.
You gotta read this though. I posted it on our local track forum and thought you all might be encouraged with some positive support at our track
I just watched a so so racing buddy take a XXX-S RTR with the brushed motor straight from the box out onto our carpet track and post consistant 17.4-17.9 second laps (we have been experimenting with a BL 4300 LiPo class with CS27 rubber tires and have just now dipped into the 14's with most of our laps in the mid 15's) Thats with the treaded RTR ruber tires, questionable set up (I saw one of the 4 rtr's our track/store owner bought for spectators to race for free with positive rear camber on one rear tire) no body, and a house transponder zip tied up high on the chassis. The motor was noticabley slower than a stock motor, and he was running an 1800 stick pack. Plus I know he was driving a bit conservatively becasue the car wasn't his. He could have gone a bit tighter and gained five tenths easy. I can't wait to get these cars into the hands of some spectators just to watch them have a blast for free. My buddy was driving with the throttle at 100%, but I know spectators will have FUN with them even if we turned it down to 50% so they didn't break as many parts. I really couldn't believe just how well that car hooked up with those RTR treaded tires. Makes me wonder what I am doing wrong! If he drove that car clean in our last rubber tire BL class race he could have been right there with us!!!
You gotta read this though. I posted it on our local track forum and thought you all might be encouraged with some positive support at our track
I just watched a so so racing buddy take a XXX-S RTR with the brushed motor straight from the box out onto our carpet track and post consistant 17.4-17.9 second laps (we have been experimenting with a BL 4300 LiPo class with CS27 rubber tires and have just now dipped into the 14's with most of our laps in the mid 15's) Thats with the treaded RTR ruber tires, questionable set up (I saw one of the 4 rtr's our track/store owner bought for spectators to race for free with positive rear camber on one rear tire) no body, and a house transponder zip tied up high on the chassis. The motor was noticabley slower than a stock motor, and he was running an 1800 stick pack. Plus I know he was driving a bit conservatively becasue the car wasn't his. He could have gone a bit tighter and gained five tenths easy. I can't wait to get these cars into the hands of some spectators just to watch them have a blast for free. My buddy was driving with the throttle at 100%, but I know spectators will have FUN with them even if we turned it down to 50% so they didn't break as many parts. I really couldn't believe just how well that car hooked up with those RTR treaded tires. Makes me wonder what I am doing wrong! If he drove that car clean in our last rubber tire BL class race he could have been right there with us!!!
12-07-2006, 08:26 AM
#219
Well since we just had our enduro in Omaha, guys had switched to running a little harder compounds to save on wear and they seem to be working fine. I don't know exactly where these fit in the conversation of soft vs. hard but here's what I've tried. The Magenta - Red/Magenta from GQ which I think are pretty close to Purple/Plaid are working very well... but the Gray- Gray/Black are not doing very well. The Gray combo made my car push really bad and others have found they can't get the rear to stick.
12-07-2006, 08:40 AM
#220
Originally Posted by padailey
Well since we just had our enduro in Omaha, guys had switched to running a little harder compounds to save on wear and they seem to be working fine. I don't know exactly where these fit in the conversation of soft vs. hard but here's what I've tried. The Magenta - Red/Magenta from GQ which I think are pretty close to Purple/Plaid are working very well... but the Gray- Gray/Black are not doing very well. The Gray combo made my car push really bad and others have found they can't get the rear to stick.
12-08-2006, 12:09 AM
#221
Yah Syndromes on his way to 3.5 weeks on his. Some of that could be set up. So I guess allow for that.
The bad news is I could'nt get the parma plaids & purples some one beat me to them.Those suckers where there for over a year, and the shop is moving, I could have got them last week 30% off And I did'nt.
So I 'm going to order some spoked T&M Tires from the track. PLAIDS AND PURPLES.
The bad news is I could'nt get the parma plaids & purples some one beat me to them.Those suckers where there for over a year, and the shop is moving, I could have got them last week 30% off And I did'nt.
So I 'm going to order some spoked T&M Tires from the track. PLAIDS AND PURPLES.
12-29-2006, 10:08 AM
#222
Thermal!! Grrrrr....
Ok so last Wednesday night some guys were out practicing and a buddy of mine Thermals twice with a 4300/sintered rotor. He is not running any outragous gear (several guys geared higher) but he had to switch to a spool in the front because his front diff broke. Now what is really strange is he had never had a thermal problem with the regular rotor. I guess the question in all this is does the sintered rotor degrade and become easier to overheat like the stock rotor?
12-29-2006, 10:23 AM
#223
I imagine it could eventually lose some strength, but those magnets are rated a like 250 degrees before they're damaged by heat. Charlie or someone might be able to give you more insight there.
Is it possible his drive train was binding up somewhere with the spool? That could easily cause the motor to run hotter. I don't know anything about spools, but are they known for being harder on a motor? Maybe you'll need to gear down when running that thing.
From what I understand, though, the temperature reached during a normal thermal shouldn't be high enough to harm the motor or a sintered rotor.
Is it possible his drive train was binding up somewhere with the spool? That could easily cause the motor to run hotter. I don't know anything about spools, but are they known for being harder on a motor? Maybe you'll need to gear down when running that thing.
From what I understand, though, the temperature reached during a normal thermal shouldn't be high enough to harm the motor or a sintered rotor.
12-29-2006, 11:52 AM
#224
Well we were all kinda scratching our heads because he is the first to thermal a sintered rotor at our track. Binding came up but we couldn't find anything.... he actually did gear down before the 2nd thermal but obviously not enough. He should be getting his diff fixed soon so hopefully it was just the spool but it definitely is weird! Glad to hear he most likely didn't damage the motor.
12-29-2006, 05:52 PM
#225
Tech Rookie
anybody figure out how to shoe horn an orion platinum 4800 brick in a losi jrxs
if not what kind of lipo can I wedge in there
if not what kind of lipo can I wedge in there
12-29-2006, 08:58 PM
#227
Rugdog a racer at our track was able to do one. I'm not sure what brand or enen if it was 4800? But it didnt have a case, and it was shrink wrapped.the wire connection was coming out by the rear diff, with a deans plug.
Sorry no picture but any things possible.
Sorry no picture but any things possible.
12-30-2006, 07:00 AM
#229
A safe range is 150 to 170. But 120 to 130 seems good on our track size.
120 seems to be really good. I think Chalie hit it pretty good, with the sintered rotor its hard to get it real hot even if over geared ,the track size is the factor. I havent hit over about 135 with my 4300 with a sintered rotor.
He mentioned the stater is getting hotter than the rotor. Be carefull if you hit 150 with a sintered rotor your probably over working the can.
And goodbye effiicency
120 seems to be really good. I think Chalie hit it pretty good, with the sintered rotor its hard to get it real hot even if over geared ,the track size is the factor. I havent hit over about 135 with my 4300 with a sintered rotor.
He mentioned the stater is getting hotter than the rotor. Be carefull if you hit 150 with a sintered rotor your probably over working the can.
And goodbye effiicency
12-30-2006, 07:38 AM
#230
Originally Posted by rugdog
anybody figure out how to shoe horn an orion platinum 4800 brick in a losi jrxs
if not what kind of lipo can I wedge in there
if not what kind of lipo can I wedge in there
12-30-2006, 03:53 PM
#231
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
A safe range is 150 to 170. But 120 to 130 seems good on our track size.
120 seems to be really good. I think Chalie hit it pretty good, with the sintered rotor its hard to get it real hot even if over geared ,the track size is the factor. I havent hit over about 135 with my 4300 with a sintered rotor.
He mentioned the stater is getting hotter than the rotor. Be carefull if you hit 150 with a sintered rotor your probably over working the can.
And goodbye effiicency
120 seems to be really good. I think Chalie hit it pretty good, with the sintered rotor its hard to get it real hot even if over geared ,the track size is the factor. I havent hit over about 135 with my 4300 with a sintered rotor.
He mentioned the stater is getting hotter than the rotor. Be carefull if you hit 150 with a sintered rotor your probably over working the can.
And goodbye effiicency
12-30-2006, 07:08 PM
#232
I havent been able to get mine that hot. I guess I dont have enough room for the teeth. And I think you have seen our track.
My best runs where at 120 to 130.
And honestly I have tried to abuse these motors.
Not my lipo's though.
To bad we cant compare side by side at the track.
My best runs where at 120 to 130.
And honestly I have tried to abuse these motors.
Not my lipo's though.
To bad we cant compare side by side at the track.
12-31-2006, 01:03 AM
#235
I'm running the 4300 with foams, and 4800 lipos, the consistancy of the lipos can some times hide the fade of being over geared. Are you running rubber I thought maybe that is the temp differance.I noticed 2 teeth to be 20 degrees hotter. I have noticed about 4 degrees per tooth on my motor.
Looks like yours took 10 degree jump per tooth.
Looks like yours took 10 degree jump per tooth.
12-31-2006, 08:53 AM
#236
lipo
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
I'm running the 4300 with foams, and 4800 lipos, the consistancy of the lipos can some times hide the fade of being over geared. Are you running rubber I thought maybe that is the temp differance.I noticed 2 teeth to be 20 degrees hotter. I have noticed about 4 degrees per tooth on my motor.
Looks like yours took 10 degree jump per tooth.
Looks like yours took 10 degree jump per tooth.
esc
12-31-2006, 04:29 PM
#239
Originally Posted by Bob Novak
As far as the coil wire measurement I think Charlie answered that and we will be posting the inductance readings on our website.
Bob Novak
Bob Novak
1) Will the measurements stay as posted regardless of rotors (e.g. a 4300 upgraded to a sintered rotor)
2) Can the motor be left in the car (e.g. if a 'post tech' was to be done of top 3 cars)
I'm assuming the answers to both is yes ...but don't like a assume