Has anyone tried to rewind brushless motor?
06-09-2007, 07:23 PM
#32
Originally my thoughts were more on taking old brushless motor and rewind it, making high turn motors for rock crawling, low turn motors for testing or motors that would be good for monster trucks rather than cheating in some stock classes. Or if you want to race in 13.5 turn class, rewind some old motor so it is 13.5 turns. I didn't think everyone would suddenly become cheater if they realized this is possible. I now start to wonder what manufacturers are doing so their motors are easily identified.
06-09-2007, 08:22 PM
#33
True, you don't need to worry about rotational balance but more importantly you have to worry about phase balance. If one phase generates more of a magnetic field than the others, the motor will not run smoothly. Unless you want to risk blowing your ESC don't even try.
I highly doubt the brushless motor would be much different. One pole producing more or less magnetic field isn't going to deter much of the performance of the motor, and certainly shouldn't hurt the speedo.
06-10-2007, 08:32 AM
#34
Tech Fanatic
If this was a problem, wouldn't regular brushed motors have this problem too? Especially machine wound motors like stock and 19t motors....? I see stock motors that look WAY different on each pole (winding pattern) but they still perform just fine.
I highly doubt the brushless motor would be much different. One pole producing more or less magnetic field isn't going to deter much of the performance of the motor, and certainly shouldn't hurt the speedo.
I highly doubt the brushless motor would be much different. One pole producing more or less magnetic field isn't going to deter much of the performance of the motor, and certainly shouldn't hurt the speedo.
It is very difficult to wind and balance a brushed armature. You need specialist equipment, and a fair degree of skill, to balance an armature without destroying the stack's flux distribution. One pole producing more or less than the others upsets the balance of the motor, and is not a good thing.
Rewinding a brushless motor requires a bit of knowledge one can acquire, a little skill with one's hands, and a bit of practice. No specialist equipment is needed. Under the present suggestion for checking a brushless, one checks the inductance of the coils. Say the number required (the limit) on the inductance is 50, and your Stock brushless reads 55. You can now rewind it until it reaches 50, and you will have an advantage.
IIRC, when we did this with 12T motors, the limit was 14 on the meter. Many motors went to 18 or 20. There was nothing you could do about it because you couldn't easily balance a rewound armature. Now, however, you can buy the wire and rewind your brushless until it reaches the number required.
I am sure that not many people will try this, but how are you going to feel at the big race when you are beaten by someone who has? At the Euros, the speed and acceleration of the hand-wound brushless was noted by a lot of people - since it was Mod, no one worried. And, since 12th is about the driver, the best driver still won!!
06-10-2007, 08:48 AM
#35
Regular brushed motors have had this problem - from those that are genuine errors, to a motor we do not allow in Europe because it does not meet the Stock Rules. We still 'unwind' motors from time to time to check that they meet the Rules.
It is very difficult to wind and balance a brushed armature. You need specialist equipment, and a fair degree of skill, to balance an armature without destroying the stack's flux distribution. One pole producing more or less than the others upsets the balance of the motor, and is not a good thing.
Rewinding a brushless motor requires a bit of knowledge one can acquire, a little skill with one's hands, and a bit of practice. No specialist equipment is needed. Under the present suggestion for checking a brushless, one checks the inductance of the coils. Say the number required (the limit) on the inductance is 50, and your Stock brushless reads 55. You can now rewind it until it reaches 50, and you will have an advantage.
IIRC, when we did this with 12T motors, the limit was 14 on the meter. Many motors went to 18 or 20. There was nothing you could do about it because you couldn't easily balance a rewound armature. Now, however, you can buy the wire and rewind your brushless until it reaches the number required.
I am sure that not many people will try this, but how are you going to feel at the big race when you are beaten by someone who has? At the Euros, the speed and acceleration of the hand-wound brushless was noted by a lot of people - since it was Mod, no one worried. And, since 12th is about the driver, the best driver still won!!
It is very difficult to wind and balance a brushed armature. You need specialist equipment, and a fair degree of skill, to balance an armature without destroying the stack's flux distribution. One pole producing more or less than the others upsets the balance of the motor, and is not a good thing.
Rewinding a brushless motor requires a bit of knowledge one can acquire, a little skill with one's hands, and a bit of practice. No specialist equipment is needed. Under the present suggestion for checking a brushless, one checks the inductance of the coils. Say the number required (the limit) on the inductance is 50, and your Stock brushless reads 55. You can now rewind it until it reaches 50, and you will have an advantage.
IIRC, when we did this with 12T motors, the limit was 14 on the meter. Many motors went to 18 or 20. There was nothing you could do about it because you couldn't easily balance a rewound armature. Now, however, you can buy the wire and rewind your brushless until it reaches the number required.
I am sure that not many people will try this, but how are you going to feel at the big race when you are beaten by someone who has? At the Euros, the speed and acceleration of the hand-wound brushless was noted by a lot of people - since it was Mod, no one worried. And, since 12th is about the driver, the best driver still won!!
I would learn to hand wind my brushless motor cept , My Lrp X-11 is already hand wound from the factory !!!
Also no reason the maufacture could`nt produce a 13.5 hand wound either ...
So how can hand winding one yourself become a advantage ?
Last edited by Wild Cherry; 06-10-2007 at 09:28 AM.
06-10-2007, 09:33 AM
#36
All Novak motors are hand-wound, including the 13.5T---both SS Pros and EXs.
06-10-2007, 09:42 AM
#37
Thought so , just was`nt sure ...
Thanks ....
Thanks ....
06-10-2007, 12:42 PM
#38
Tech Fanatic
This is a guess, but it maybe that the wire used, and the amount of wire, would also affect performance. We do this in brushed with singles, doubles, triples, etc., so would that have an effect in brushless? I don't know, but it is possible in theory.
There is so much about brushless we don't know yet, and it will be very interesting to see what happens with the Mod guys. However, until we know, they remain a problem in Stock to find equivalents, and keep them there.
06-10-2007, 07:09 PM
#39
Well if you think you can wind one better than the factory, all the power to yeah .....
I have doubts that rewinding a brushless will yield any extra power like twisting a com or other way`s they "tune" a brush motor ...
I have doubts that rewinding a brushless will yield any extra power like twisting a com or other way`s they "tune" a brush motor ...
06-10-2007, 10:09 PM
#40
its handwound but its not uniform, you could rewind the brushless and get less wire....and have the same power from each pole...this is key...making all the poles have the exact same lenth of wire...all this adds up to more power!
07-10-2011, 10:31 PM
#41
Tech Rookie
there seems to be alot of confusion with this subject..
yes i have been rewinding ac brushless motors for many years, until 2 years ago when my hv-pro died. its actually very easy if you have the patience to do it.
yes you should use some specialty tools for some of the motors but i have noticed that these smaller motors have alot of room for error, and they still work (within specs)
impedance meters will work. but i noticed that with all the ones i have done just pull the wires, sauder and cut . they are so close in coil resistance it wont matter and besides if they are out a bit its almost impossible to adjust without completely rewinding the motor anyways .
i have never had an issue with fixing them myself.
just make sure to use a hi quality hi heat wire, and always protect the wire when feeding it thru from scratches or rubbing on the core. (enamel coatings will scratch off and ruin a winding)
just copy what the original windings were in length and guage and you will be ok.
and as always check that the newly installed windings are not shorting out on the core.
(this is when you need to check your resistance )
later.
yes i have been rewinding ac brushless motors for many years, until 2 years ago when my hv-pro died. its actually very easy if you have the patience to do it.
yes you should use some specialty tools for some of the motors but i have noticed that these smaller motors have alot of room for error, and they still work (within specs)
impedance meters will work. but i noticed that with all the ones i have done just pull the wires, sauder and cut . they are so close in coil resistance it wont matter and besides if they are out a bit its almost impossible to adjust without completely rewinding the motor anyways .
i have never had an issue with fixing them myself.
just make sure to use a hi quality hi heat wire, and always protect the wire when feeding it thru from scratches or rubbing on the core. (enamel coatings will scratch off and ruin a winding)
just copy what the original windings were in length and guage and you will be ok.
and as always check that the newly installed windings are not shorting out on the core.
(this is when you need to check your resistance )
later.
07-11-2011, 08:49 AM
#43
Tech Rookie
yes i do know. thanks for the reply .
07-11-2011, 10:33 PM
#44
Tech Initiate
I think rewinding a BL motor is a great idea. I know in rock crawling, the differance between a cheap machine wound, and a hand wound 35T brushed motor is night and day. So if your BL motor is wound all sloppy, and you put it into a pattern using the thickest wire for the given turn. It just has to work better, faster, with more torque and speed.
I cant say I have been on any other forum that has members so quick to bash or call someone a cheater for having independant thought as this one right here.
Quit being whinners. If someone out runs you. Then drive better, get more practice. Read about your radio, and ESC settings. Tune the suspension on your car. Stop getting out of the way of the fast car on the track just because they whine and make the faster car have to work more to get around you.
Later KB.
P.S. 4 years ago, and still a interesting thread.
I cant say I have been on any other forum that has members so quick to bash or call someone a cheater for having independant thought as this one right here.
Quit being whinners. If someone out runs you. Then drive better, get more practice. Read about your radio, and ESC settings. Tune the suspension on your car. Stop getting out of the way of the fast car on the track just because they whine and make the faster car have to work more to get around you.
Later KB.
P.S. 4 years ago, and still a interesting thread.
11-09-2016, 11:50 AM
#45
Tech Rookie
In runner or out?
They're smoking that medical grade marijuana at least I am and I'm not sure if he needs the inventor or the OutRunner if it isn't in runner you're right is weed must be better than mine because I would never attempt to rewind and inrunner motor Maybe but an OutRunner motor no problem I can find them in my sleep help my 4 year old son can win them just kidding but he's getting really close
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