staiguy

iTrader: (7)

I find yielding my place over boring as hell. Instead I can battle it out and maybe not even have to give up the spot. Racing instead of chasing. Again, this was my first time 21.5, the esc could be tweaked so I have to brake instead of letting the drag brake so it for me (esc settings to make things easier?). Also 21.5 played to my driving style advantage. Instead of blitzing jumps, I plan my take off speed to land on the lip to give my car time to react to turns, instead of turn, brake and burn. This often helped me carry more speed through the section rather than one area.

our expert class is basically all pros or sponsored drivers in some way. The track shop owner is even planning to take drivers, who want to attend, to a nationals event. Some of the top intermediate drivers don’t want to constantly push their equipment to keep up with expert level pace if they are able to get equipment on the cheap.

also if you are dialing down mod settings, isn’t that going to let faster guys outpace you easier? If they are taking off faster wouldn’t that naturally build up a gap that’s hard to catch up from?

Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

I’m pretty sure there’s at least 1 21.5 buggy running at HobbyTown.

Come over to the big track in Iowa or Detroit. 17.5 is full throttle barely lift

kufman

iTrader: (6)

I hate 17.5 but that is all they run.

Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

Unfortunately all the big talkers that wanted mod at ThunderDome never showed up in the last year.

Island Speedway is under 3hrs in Muscatine, Iowa. Mod always runs there

DirkW

iTrader: (1)

That's always about the track. On our large outdoor track even 13.5T stock 2WD feels boringly slow and way too much full throttle to ever pique my interest.

Psf

iTrader: (71)

Interesting thread! I would agree that I would rather see less classes. Less heats overall would be ideal to make for shorter programs. Now there are usually so many that I choose not to race pretty often just based on the fact that it takes so long. There is also a better chance of finding closer competition with more people in one class. I would rather be in a battle for 5th in a B Main with everyone in that class than checked out winning an A with less competition. Splitting people up makes for less of a chance to find those battles.

Since going to 21.5 at our track (Burlington), it pretty much killed what was the stock (17.5) class. Now it is mod and there were only a few drivers in it the last times I raced. So instead of running that with a 17.5 and likely driving around in the back, I ran 21.5. I ended having an awesome battle for the top 3 (see video below) but I would have rather had the guys that ran mod in the same class to compare to.

That said, I have had a blast with the 21.5 car but speed/power has been borderline to make the jumps. In the video below you can see they kind of notched out the landing of the jump in the middle so we could case it with less punishment. While I could make the other two jumps from pretty far inside on this night, I came back a few weeks later and couldn't unless I went way outside. So with the right track, they can be a lot of fun. We will see what the next layout brings. I'd like to run something faster but not if it is only against 3 guys that probably can't keep up with.

But more classes = more entries = more money for the track so that is probably the most important. Gotta have a place to race!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCQH7B5Y3MY&t=18s

Cain

iTrader: (294)

Sounds like half the battle is how big the track is relative to the power you have. Our outdoor track personally I could see us going to say 13.5 all around for our spec classes including 2wd buggy as we have some jumps that at one point were used for 1/8 and 1/5 scales (Yes 1/5 scales) at a track that sadly closed down (Thunder Road RC Raceway). When launching those, 13.5 in other classes feels perfect, 2wd buggy 17.5 is boarderline at the start of he race when the batteries are fresh. So I could see 13.5 being a thing, maybe more so than full mod locally.

As for indoors on our tighter 70x36 sized track (thats actually carpet size, so take away some for barrier spots, etc. lanes 8ft minimum 10ft or so on straight), I could see a benefit to going a bit slower in general with say 21.5 based on the wide range of driver skill to make things a bit safer when folks crash, etc.

All in all, what matters though is turnout, don't care if its mod, spec, whatever, you don't have turnout, its all just spitting in the wind at that point.

gee-dub

iTrader: (1)

^-this, when it comes to what defines healthy racing/tracks, what is better, feelings, opinions, unicorns and rainbows, more than anything in this thread, this-^

BigBuckORamma

I can say that a lot of people laughed at Hobby Action getting a 17.5 Fixed Timing 4WD class. But the motors are plenty torquey to make all of the triples, and the cars now have a slightly lower V-Max, so they arent breaking as much, and more people are bringing their 4WD's out to race. Its been a a full heat of racing most every race day now. Including a couple days where we have had a B main.

Now, while 8-10 doesnt sound very big, prior to that, straight up 13.5 4WD, would only have 3-5 cars come the main, often times from too many people breaking their ride in Quali. And that was only if enough people signed up for 4WD in the first place.

Now we have had a 4WD Intermediate heat every race night. And people are breaking way fewer parts, much less often than before. But they are also buying more 4WD tires again too, because they are getting more track time. So its a win/win for the track, the shop, and the racers.

So say what you will about slowing the cars down, but if it allows for people to race without fear of breakage, that alone is a massive incentive to keep showing up every week to run.

Brandon11m

What are people's thoughts of making spec classes also a lower grip spec tire? If spec is meant to be a beginner class why not slow them down everywhere rather than just in the straight? It makes it so even with low power it puts more emphasis on learning throttle control and less emphasis on having the lightest weight freest spinning car. For carpet make spec class run slicks (if it's not already forced) the slicks will slow the cars down a bit and last longer than any pin type carpet tire will making the class cheaper to run. For dirt it'd be a bit harder to decide, since most dirt tracks run slicks maybe make people run a street tread type tire like a bandito? Main worry with this is it would become a tire game with shaving them down and saucing them up to still get as much grip as possible but it's an idea

staiguy

iTrader: (7)

How many races in a program is ideal? Right now there’s usually 11 classes and at 5 minutes for each race, it takes about 1.5 hours to get through one round. Starts about 730 and gets out after 11

foampervert

iTrader: (5)

I don't know about others, I do enjoy a good race, but I abhorr car damage... Especially for vintage car classes.

For me, enjoying racing with mates is my fun. A win for me is ending the day without a damaged car. I would hazard to say that the appropriate motor and fdr, would be the one that allows the car to get around the track without damage and is easy to drive (again, lowering damage potential). This is track specific, so a larger track with bigger jumps would require a fdr and motor to be hotter, to ensure car longevity. And a cooler motor for flatter, twister tracks.

if parity is a concern, then race organisers can control both motor wind and fdr.... after first testing the track.

For me, I hate tracks with too many jumps... cos its hard to race on. Cars cannot race in the air... whilst I enjoy big air too, a track with too many jumps just doesn't make for good racing... too much luck involved.

Billy Kelly

iTrader: (9)

11 possible classes or more. But the majority of the 64 races I did last year had 3-5 running. 3 being top. 17.5 2w, 13.5 4w, 21.5 2w and maybe SCT. Mod or open at only a handful of club races, few more for trophy races. I only run carpet. Can’t speak for clay

Cain

iTrader: (294)

I remember in the "old' days when 4wd buggy was just modified, no real entry point for someone to get into it, so they would start in a class that had an entry point, and then usually stayed in that class or if they did "move up" to something faster, it was still the same platform. When we tried a 19T brushed motor 4wd buggy class that seemed to work pretty well even though the 4wd buggies were still like glass on strength.

Fast forward to now, saw basically an explosion of 4wd buggies with 13.5T brushless spec racing. Offered a fast class but approachable and vehicles were basically more durable due to reduced speed and just buggies in general getting more durable. Times I saw some places attempt full mod, locally included, with guys all the way down to 4.0T motors, became more a war of attrition than racing at times, and at club levels the spread in skill levels drivers would just pull off instead of race due to feeling like speed bumps or in the way.

I'd be curious, especially on smaller indoor tracks, how 17.5 4wd buggy would go, especially with places that can have a variety of skill levels present. If it gets more turnout, great.

I think it depends on how that is done. I hear in Europe when they use a spec tire like say the Schumacher Honeycomb that is pretty hard in comparison, they don't even allow you to sauce or use simple green. It would need to be like that or personally now it seems you get into the tire voodoo o guys doing all they can to make a tire tha was meant to be not as grippy now grippy. And it becomes a thing of haves and have nots. Rather a tire that is known to be good for grip out of the box, and then go from there.

Think it depends on how long you all plan to be there. For us on Tuesday nights, our club voted and passed that after we get 50 entries, we go to 1 heat, 1 main, 6 minute lengths versus our stand 2 heats, 1 main, 5 minutes heats. Real early, but first race with this layout seemed to work well, though yuo may want to run say an additional bump up if you do just 1 bump normally.

gotheframe

At roar events, the spec classes already have/had a specified tire. Looks like for INS14 series all the classes went Open Tire, which is good. Nothing is going to change the outcome - exploiting gray areas and outspending trying to find the edge over the next guy. There is no throttle control emphasis when they're slowed down which is why they're theoretically beginner classes... (nod to the factory pro drivers making up the A/B mains, lol).


Spec class should be Stock Bandit handouts that are distributed from quarantine before the heat and returned immediately after. Change my mind.